Sirfris v's Egg

sirfris · 19th May 2009, 14:37

Hi all, this is my first post and I'm after some advice having spent hours and hours reading up on this subject on here.

I have an Egg card taken out years and years ago and think it was done online around 2000.

I am not in default and paying the minimum payment each month. I sent a template letter for my CCA along with the £1. Egg banked the money and sent me their standard T's+C's along with 2 pages of new conditions which come into effect 28th May 09 and a copy of a standard credit agreement. (NOT mine no name, sig etc)

I ammened my original CCA and resent by Recorded delivery asking for my true copy and giving them a further 12 days (how nice of me)and today have received a standard letter saying they are investigating my complaint and they will respond within 8 weeks.

I called them today and they said they are sending another letter requesting my signature autolinker.com autolinking image

as proof. I shall await this letter but I'm not signing it, as I digitally signed my original 2 letters and they accepted the 1st and sent out a standard credit agreement as previously mentioned.

I have the following questions if anyone can help please:

If I use my card after the 28th May would I be agreeing to these new conditions and as such would I be agreeing to a enforceable agreement?

I suspect my agreement is like a lot of posters on here, in that it will most likely either not have a sig or the credit limit wording will be incorrect hence them delaying.

Is there a way OR has anyone managed to contest the enforceability of a egg credit card agreement without them defaulting your account?

I would love to stop my DD and send the dispute letter but I don't want my credit rating trashed as my mortgage is up for renewel in 3 months time!

So in a nutshell what should I do when I receive the letter for my sig?

I take that Egg will delay,ignore etc until I stop paying then they will default my credit rating despite legally they are not supposed to.

Any idea's?

Many thanks

S

militantconsumer · 19th May 2009, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirfris

Hi all, this is my first post and I'm after some advice having spent hours and hours reading up on this subject on here.

I have an Egg card taken out years and years ago and think it was done online around 2000.

I am not in default and paying the minimum payment each month. I sent a template letter for my CCA along with the £1. Egg banked the money and sent me their standard T's+C's along with 2 pages of new conditions which come into effect 28th May 09 and a copy of a standard credit agreement. (NOT mine no name, sig etc)

I ammened my original CCA and resent by Recorded delivery asking for my true copy and giving them a further 12 days (how nice of me)and today have received a standard letter saying they are investigating my complaint and they will respond within 8 weeks.

I called them today and they said they are sending another letter requesting my signature autolinker.com autolinking image

as proof. I shall await this letter but I'm not signing it, as I digitally signed my original 2 letters and they accepted the 1st and sent out a standard credit agreement as previously mentioned.

I have the following questions if anyone can help please:

If I use my card after the 28th May would I be agreeing to these new conditions and as such would I be agreeing to a enforceable agreement?

I suspect my agreement is like a lot of posters on here, in that it will most likely either not have a sig or the credit limit wording will be incorrect hence them delaying.

Is there a way OR has anyone managed to contest the enforceability of a egg credit card agreement without them defaulting your account?

I would love to stop my DD and send the dispute letter but I don't want my credit rating trashed as my mortgage is up for renewel in 3 months time!

So in a nutshell what should I do when I receive the letter for my sig?

I take that Egg will delay,ignore etc until I stop paying then they will default my credit rating despite legally they are not supposed to.

Any idea's?

Many thanks

S

Hi Sirfis

Egg have started being awkward about providing copy CCAs, but I can tell you now that they either don't have it at all or, more likely, they do have it but it is the "approved limit" style agreement. This is widely believed to be totally unenforceable by the courts.

And no, you won't be deemed to be accepting new conditions as the agreement you signed is the one you signed. Pre 2007 there was a proper level of consumer protection in place, and the new 2007 laws do not apply retrospectively to earlier agreements.

Don't call them, you are wasting your time.

You are wise to be worried about the default. This is virtually unavoidable, and as far as I know there have been no victories to speak of against credit card companies in this area. Even the Information Commissioner agrees that they are allowed to default you in these circumstances, and they are supposed to be enforcing the Data Protection Act.

The only ways you will avoid the default are:
1. pay up.
2. succeed in getting an injunction against Egg for trying to enforce an unenforceable agreement.
3. be the first person to win a victory under the data protection act for processing untrue data about you (contrary to the opinion of the Information Commissioner)

In the meantime you can fight them on late payment & overlimit charges and PPI premiums - if you have had any of those.

militantconsumer · 19th May 2009, 20:05

Sorry, should have added that if they have completely lost your agreement then there is a grey area as to whether they have any contractual right to report to CRAs at all. But don't hold your breath for any hope from the Information Commissioner`s Office.

sirfris · 19th May 2009, 22:13

Many thanks for your advice it's really appreciated.

Are you saying you can take out an injunction to stop them from putting a default on your file? Or fighting to get it removed once it is placed on my credit file autolinker.com autolinking image

?

I was niavely thinking I could prove the CCA was unenforceable or non existent (if they dont have one) and get things sorted whilst paying the minimum payment and avoided a default.
I'm now realising that Egg are unlikely to play fair and abide by the law and default me whilst in dispute.

Is one default a really bad thing to pick up your credit file I guess so from other posts? I've always had an a1 credit rating hence the reluctance to allow Egg to illegally trash it!

I am now reluctant to pay this off because of their blatent disregard for the law and feel like they need teaching they are not above it

I shall see what this letter says and then respond accodingly. I think I will be ignored unless I take the step of cancelling my DD.

militantconsumer · 19th May 2009, 22:35

Presumably if you are paying the minimum payment then that is just the interest autolinker.com autolinking image

, and you are not reducing the amount owed? Do you have any late payment charges or PPI that you can argue about?

Opinions on the impact of defaults do vary across the forum, but they are a black market against your reliability, and so could mean you get offered a worse rate when applying for credit. This is all speculation, of course. But it's not hard to see how the money saved by not paying Egg could be swallowed up by increased mortgage payments.

Where an agreement is not enforceable by the courts, judges have suggested that the appropriate course of action is an injunction to prevent collection activity. I'm not sure we have any examples of people doing this yet, and I know it can be expensive it you lose. There is also no guarantee that the judge would agree to include not damaging your credit file autolinker.com autolinking image

as part of the injunction.

If Egg have lost the agreement then they are going to have a hard time proving they have the right to pass your data onto third parties at all. However, they still will, and do you really want a big fight that you could avoid?

Sad but true, and even the Information Commissioner`s Office take the view that a default can be recorded even without a credit agreement. Just the evidence of a credit facility being provided and then not paid regularly seems to be enough for them. I have a link somewhere to an article about that.

Let's look at it another way. I have an Egg Card with a credit limit of £5,000. The agreement dates from about 2000. (I'm talking about my own Egg Card now, not my friend's Egg Card mentioned in my other thread). Can I go out tomorrow and max it out, with no intention of repaying, and without any fear of my credit rating being affected?

I think that is where they are coming from.

militantconsumer · 19th May 2009, 22:37

Another issue you could look into is unreasonable increases in your interest autolinker.com autolinking image

rate. If you do an advanced search you may be able to find some threads. The fos autolinker.com autolinking image

may be able to help with this once Egg have rejected your complaint - but they are very slow and it won't help you in the short term.

sirfris · 19th May 2009, 23:25

I do not have any late payment charges and to the best of my knowledge I never took out or have ever seen any PPI charges on any statements.

Knowing how the banksters create the debt in the first place and knowing they may have slipped up with these agreements. It would be nice to give them a dose of their own medicine.

I shall investigate the unfair interest autolinker.com autolinking image

rate threads.

Thanks again.

19th May 2009, 14:37	#1 (permalink)
sirfris Basic Account Holder Is your bank avoiding its debts Data disclosure poll Cagger since : May 2009 Posts: 5	Sirfris v's Egg Hi all, this is my first post and I'm after some advice having spent hours and hours reading up on this subject on here. I have an Egg card taken out years and years ago and think it was done online around 2000. I am not in default and paying the minimum payment each month. I sent a template letter for my CCA along with the £1. Egg banked the money and sent me their standard T's+C's along with 2 pages of new conditions which come into effect 28th May 09 and a copy of a standard credit agreement. (NOT mine no name, sig etc) I ammened my original CCA and resent by Recorded delivery asking for my true copy and giving them a further 12 days (how nice of me)and today have received a standard letter saying they are investigating my complaint and they will respond within 8 weeks. I called them today and they said they are sending another letter requesting my signature as proof. I shall await this letter but I'm not signing it, as I digitally signed my original 2 letters and they accepted the 1st and sent out a standard credit agreement as previously mentioned. I have the following questions if anyone can help please: If I use my card after the 28th May would I be agreeing to these new conditions and as such would I be agreeing to a enforceable agreement? I suspect my agreement is like a lot of posters on here, in that it will most likely either not have a sig or the credit limit wording will be incorrect hence them delaying. Is there a way OR has anyone managed to contest the enforceability of a egg credit card agreement without them defaulting your account? I would love to stop my DD and send the dispute letter but I don't want my credit rating trashed as my mortgage is up for renewel in 3 months time! So in a nutshell what should I do when I receive the letter for my sig? I take that Egg will delay,ignore etc until I stop paying then they will default my credit rating despite legally they are not supposed to. Any idea's? Many thanks S

19th May 2009, 20:05	#3 (permalink)
militantconsumer Basic Account Holder Protect your signature with SignGuard Cagger since : Oct 2008 Posts: 757	Re: Sirfris v's Egg Sorry, should have added that if they have completely lost your agreement then there is a grey area as to whether they have any contractual right to report to CRAs at all. But don't hold your breath for any hope from the Information Commissioner`s Office.

19th May 2009, 22:13	#4 (permalink)
sirfris Basic Account Holder Worried about your signature being copied onto CCAs etc? Use SignGuard Cagger since : May 2009 Posts: 5	Re: Sirfris v's Egg Many thanks for your advice it's really appreciated. Are you saying you can take out an injunction to stop them from putting a default on your file? Or fighting to get it removed once it is placed on my credit file? I was niavely thinking I could prove the CCA was unenforceable or non existent (if they dont have one) and get things sorted whilst paying the minimum payment and avoided a default. I'm now realising that Egg are unlikely to play fair and abide by the law and default me whilst in dispute. Is one default a really bad thing to pick up your credit file I guess so from other posts? I've always had an a1 credit rating hence the reluctance to allow Egg to illegally trash it! I am now reluctant to pay this off because of their blatent disregard for the law and feel like they need teaching they are not above it I shall see what this letter says and then respond accodingly. I think I will be ignored unless I take the step of cancelling my DD.

19th May 2009, 22:35	#5 (permalink)
militantconsumer Basic Account Holder Try our eBay sniping service Cagger since : Oct 2008 Posts: 757	Re: Sirfris v's Egg Presumably if you are paying the minimum payment then that is just the interest, and you are not reducing the amount owed? Do you have any late payment charges or PPI that you can argue about? Opinions on the impact of defaults do vary across the forum, but they are a black market against your reliability, and so could mean you get offered a worse rate when applying for credit. This is all speculation, of course. But it's not hard to see how the money saved by not paying Egg could be swallowed up by increased mortgage payments. Where an agreement is not enforceable by the courts, judges have suggested that the appropriate course of action is an injunction to prevent collection activity. I'm not sure we have any examples of people doing this yet, and I know it can be expensive it you lose. There is also no guarantee that the judge would agree to include not damaging your credit file as part of the injunction. If Egg have lost the agreement then they are going to have a hard time proving they have the right to pass your data onto third parties at all. However, they still will, and do you really want a big fight that you could avoid? Sad but true, and even the Information Commissioner`s Office take the view that a default can be recorded even without a credit agreement. Just the evidence of a credit facility being provided and then not paid regularly seems to be enough for them. I have a link somewhere to an article about that. Let's look at it another way. I have an Egg Card with a credit limit of £5,000. The agreement dates from about 2000. (I'm talking about my own Egg Card now, not my friend's Egg Card mentioned in my other thread). Can I go out tomorrow and max it out, with no intention of repaying, and without any fear of my credit rating being affected? I think that is where they are coming from.

19th May 2009, 22:37	#6 (permalink)
militantconsumer Basic Account Holder Have we helped you? Please help us by making a donation Cagger since : Oct 2008 Posts: 757	Re: Sirfris v's Egg Another issue you could look into is unreasonable increases in your interest rate. If you do an advanced search you may be able to find some threads. The fos may be able to help with this once Egg have rejected your complaint - but they are very slow and it won't help you in the short term.

19th May 2009, 23:25	#7 (permalink)
sirfris Basic Account Holder Give yourself a better chance with our claims guides and litigation kits Cagger since : May 2009 Posts: 5	Re: Sirfris v's Egg I do not have any late payment charges and to the best of my knowledge I never took out or have ever seen any PPI charges on any statements. Knowing how the banksters create the debt in the first place and knowing they may have slipped up with these agreements. It would be nice to give them a dose of their own medicine. I shall investigate the unfair interest rate threads. Thanks again.