Egg and their little lackies- Collect Direct UK

[Keasby]

Hi there.
I've been reading plenty here the last few days and it has helped a great deal.

I was hoping I could clear up a few things I'm confused about.

Firstly, all this stuff about CCA's. I'm aware that egg's are generally water tight but my partner and I have plenty of debt besides. Essentially if it is not enforcable/ no longer exists are you no longer liable to pay the debt. Does this effect your credit record (in as much as they exist). Secondly if, as a few lucky (and persistent) people have said, the DCAs agree that they will not persue you any more (due to dubious CCA or what ever) could they decide to start chasing again if the whim takes them?

Secondly, are DCAs expected to be FSA registered. I was dealing with the rude and misleading types at Collect Direct UK re. my egg account and they demanded I send my income/expenditure. I said (on the fly) I would not send it as I don't know if your FSA registered to which the very unpleasant woman said I would just have to look on the website. They seem to be consumer credit licenced but their name or their parent company is not on the FSA register. Also am I being unnecessarily stubborn not to send these parasites my financial details?

Finally is there any limit on the insults and lies these people can tell legally? I was told that I ran up as much debt as I wanted and that I was nothing but a debtor.

This site has already been really helpful but if some more assistance is possible I'd be very grateful

[andydd]

Originally Posted by Keasby

Hi there.
I've been reading plenty here the last few days and it has helped a great deal.

I was hoping I could clear up a few things I'm confused about.

Firstly, all this stuff about CCA's. I'm aware that egg's are generally water tight but my partner and I have plenty of debt besides. Essentially if it is not enforcable/ no longer exists are you no longer liable to pay the debt. Does this effect your credit record (in as much as they exist). Secondly if, as a few lucky (and persistent) people have said, the DCAs agree that they will not persue you any more (due to dubious CCA or what ever) could they decide to start chasing again if the whim takes them?

Secondly, are DCAs expected to be FSA registered. I was dealing with the rude and misleading types at Collect Direct UK re. my egg account and they demanded I send my income/expenditure. I said (on the fly) I would not send it as I don't know if your FSA registered to which the very unpleasant woman said I would just have to look on the website. They seem to be consumer credit licenced but their name or their parent company is not on the FSA register. Also am I being unnecessarily stubborn not to send these parasites my financial details?

Finally is there any limit on the insults and lies these people can tell legally? I was told that I ran up as much debt as I wanted and that I was nothing but a debtor.

This site has already been really helpful but if some more assistance is possible I'd be very grateful

HHmm..Although Egg CCA are better than some, they normally have a signature and some of the prescribed terms, a quick search on here will show they are certainly not water tight.

Many posters on here point out that Egg CCA's miss the prescribed term Amount Of Credit, Egg CCA's generally have an 'Approved Limit' instead which is open to interperation.

Andy

[Keasby]

Thanks very much.

What are people's opinion of my stubborness towards sending Income/Expenditure info and whether DCA need to be FSA registered?

[seriously fed up]

In my personal opinion, for the little that its worth, you should tell them to go forth and multiply.
You have to realise that DCAs are employed by banks to collect the debts that their "call centres" havent managed to shake off the trees. Their responsibility is to their client (and in fairness that is the legal situation - their contract is with the bank) not with you. In terms of filling out their income and outgoings forms, my advice would be

1. tell them to get lost (especially the ones who insist they can only do this over the phone and never in writing - I mean are you going to remember ALL your outgoings in one phone call? And where is the proof? Dont tell me that they havent thought of that. Yes they will make threats - whatever they have to say to get the money that you might/not have. One of the best bits of advice that I got was just to put the phone down. Or better still make it clear to them that you will NOT discuss this matter on the phone, but only in writing.Or - if you want a laugh - give them the runaround on the "security questions". There are some funny examples on this forum) But do go to somewhere like your local CAB - THEY will have YOUR interests at heart which a bank or DCA wont - their job is to get as much money out of you as quickly as possible. For the CAB YOU are THEIR client - quite different. Once I am out of this - and I hope to be in the next few months - I plan to make a small contribution to my local CAB - not for the help they gave me (that's their job) but just for helping me to keep going.
2. but before doing that (or at the same time), make sure that they (and I mean the banks) have the legal right to collect. I have been - indeed i suppose i still am - in the place that you are now - loads of creditors and not enough income to pay it. I have CCAd (asked for a copy of the Consumer Credit Act agreement) for ALL my credit cards (there were 18!) and to date I have only ONE that would stand up in Court. Some of them havent even replied. Mostly its just sad and pathetic. One lot sent me a few days ago a glossy ffs list of T&Cs and tried to tell me this was an executed credit card agreement in terms of the Consumer Credit Act. This is another skill you have to acquire - ignoring their lies, because, and this goes back to what I said about the relationship between banks and DCAs, their job is to get as much money out of you as possible as quickly as possible. But once they get the idea that you have some kind of idea of YOUR rights, it gets a bit easier. For me its got a LOT quieter I can tell you. I have established in two cases that they dont have it (but they are looking!) - they have owned up. Most wont do that. Egg - and they are one of the 18 - seem to be looking to carry on regardless despite the fact that their paperwork is wanting in at least three requirements of the Consumer Credit Act. Fortunately, most are taking a more sensible approach.

Go to this page The Consumer Forums - debt collectors and you will find the kind of letters you will need - adapt them to your circumstances.But first have a look at the forums where others are dealing with the same creditors that you are. You can often pick up interesting ideas.
Good luck - really its not as bad as it seems

[Keasby]

Thank you for that post- a really useful set of ideas.

Am I right in thinking that if they do not have a CCA that is enforcable I can just sit back and stop paying. They may threaten to take me to court but are unlikely as they will know that they don't have much of a case. Does this just leave us in a Mexican standoff or is it sensible to write a letter along the lines of;

Your CCA has some problems and would not stand up in court, however I am prepared to pay you £xxx as full and final setlement.

Or would this be acknowledging the debt and count against me.

Could I even write;


Your CCA has some problems and would not stand up in court, therefore I do not acknowledge this debt and unless I hear from you in 14 days I will consider the matter closed and you will not persue me for any of the aledged debt.

Is there any possibility this would work?

Sorry for rambling, I just want to get this all straight in my head. (BTW I don't actually have the CCA's yet but nothing like being prepared)

[seriously fed up]

In outline the letters are fine - ie here's some money, neither of us are on completely sure ground, please go away. But, if paying them, make sure you get a letter confirming its in full and final settlement. Dont just send them money. In any caseSomeone told me that the Banks make a profit even if they only get 10% back of what is owed and for sure they are only getting 20% or so if they sell them on to a DCA.
The second one is a bit more warlike. I have used this one and they have gone away. Its whether they will stay away that is the worrying thing, or do you end up going round the loop again in a year for instance either with the lender or another DCA.
If you can run to it, I would think first of all about the first one. But if you are sure of your ground, I would give serious consideration to number 2.
I wouldnt bet on getting the CCAs btw - as I said I have asked for 18, and only got back one that would stand up in court, and you want to see some of what has been sent to me. You would scarcely believe it - the last one was a glossy set of current T&Cs - and that sir is your executed agreement. Either they are stupid or think I am. But more often than not its the roaring silence that gets you.

[Keasby]

Thank you once again for the advice- Have a click on the scales for you troubles!
I'll get those CCA requests sent (recorded delivery I assume) and take it from there. On another note £1000 in charges from Mint and NatWest credit cards combined!

[Keasby]

I'm still waiting for my statments to claim charges before I CCA, but it's been nearly 3 months now. I'm aware they have 40 days to comply but what, in reality can be done if they don't respond in time? I know they can be reported but is there any actual recourse? I'm guessing they will at worse get a little slap on the wrist by the OFT, the information commision or maybe the FSA.

Speaking of which, I'm still curious whether DCAs need to be FSA registered?

[seriously fed up]

Just one thing to watch is collecting on unlawful fees at the same time as denying the debt as there is no CCA. The logic is that how can you reclaim fees on an account whose existence you are disputing?
Personally I dont quite see it like that. I think there is another argument which says that if they (the banks) dont have the agreement then they have no basis to have taken your money anyway. But I know the other view is quite widely held. Anyone else - more knowledgeable than I - care to comment?
Re Nat West and Mint (which btw are both RBS ultimately) good luck in getting yoru dosh - it will be well worthwhile if you can do it. But dont imagine they will just roll over and hand it back. I have a claim against a bank for £1600 which they just wont pay out on (best I have got them to is £300) - the credit limit was no more than £600 too. I have done quite well getting repayments and never had to go to Court once. I think I might have to on this one though.
Btw, recorded delivery is the recommended route, but I dont usually use it and havent had many problems. However, one bunch of commedians clearly werent going to take any cognisance without going down the recorded delivery route, so I sent them another CCA request recorded delivery. I have a certificate from the Post Office that it has been delivered by them, but no signature and they still claim not to have received it. Its another world you are entering into Keasby.

[Keasby]

Thanks again for the help.
Oddly I got around £1000 between NatWest and Mint (on Credit cards). Still on hold for the current account though.

Update on Egg. Got the statements and with charges and dodgy ppi my balance will be about £30.

[postggj]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...?highlight=EGG

HAVE A NOSE AT PT EXCERLENT THREAD

ITS LONG BUT EGG AGREEMENTS ARE NOT THAT SOLID TO CRACK

[Keasby]

I'm starting to realise that now- I have the CCA letters ready to go.

[Keasby]

Thats some interesting reading. One question, I'm still in the middle of claiming charges and dodgy PPI, should I hold off CCAing (is that a word?) them until that has been resolved?

[Keasby]

Well long time no update. I got the PPI back (hooray!) and balance is now small. They are holding out on the Charges so I sent a letter informing them that my next payment will be my last as £10 will leave the balance (with frozen interest) at the exact amount I am claiming in charges and interest. We will see what they have to say.

Also had CDUK (wasn't that a kids tv show a few years back, I always expect Ant and Dec to phone demanding money) back on the phone. They calimed egg no longer considered the account in dispute. I said it was.
The 'genteman' then said I had to start making payments. I replied- I have never stopped making payments.

He wanted £20 a month, which is what I have been paying until now, but it was not an officially sanctioned £20 so he's going to take me to court.

I would dearly love to see the case;
Judge- how much do you require this man to pay?
CDUK £20 a month
Judge- and how much has he been paying?
CDUK- £20 a month
Judge- ???????????

[Keasby]

Victory!!!

Of sorts.

CDUK claim that Egg still consider my balance to be £400+ despite the fact that I just spoke to egg who confirmed it was much lower. Because they obviously have no stomach for a fight they have passed my account back to Egg.

Now just waiting for a reply to my letter about a final payment. They apparently need 2 more weeks to even look at it but I only get 5 days to pay my account in full when they send me a snotty letter!

Can I just say thankyou to everyone who gave such good advice. I didn't CCA egg in the end as the balance was so small after PPI and Charges were taken into account but I have with other lenders.

[Keasby]

Sorry one other point- I know that a debt shouldn't be passed on if it is in dispute. Does that include a DCA passing it back to the original creditor?

[Keasby]

Hi there. back again.
So CDUK have reopened my account because i supposedly corresponded with them and made a payment. I paid egg and wrote to egg, not CDUK which is strange. The only correspondence with CDUK was a formal complaint which was dealt with poorly to say the least.

Anyway, I'm now at a deadlock with Egg, the last £120ish on the balance is charges they are refusing to pay back or remove from the balance so where should I go now? I talked to the obudsman who said the charges were probably fair which of course i disagree with. Should I file court papers through MCOL now or is there another tact I could take? I can't see egg capitulating and giving in now through normal letters.

In the meantime is there a way of ensuring the 'debt' is in dispute even after egg have given their full and final response?

Lots of questions I know but I'm a bit stuck now.

[Mistermind]

Originally Posted by Keasby

Anyway, I'm now at a deadlock with Egg, the last £120ish on the balance is charges they are refusing to pay back or remove from the balance so where should I go now? I talked to the obudsman who said the charges were probably fair which of course i disagree with. Should I file court papers through MCOL now or is there another tact I could take? I can't see egg capitulating and giving in now through normal letters.

Egg ALWAYS gives in without exception and refunds penalty charges in full. Their template letters are designed to discourage the uninitiated, sent out by computer without human intervention.

They will pay at the last minute before court if you file MCOL, or bypassing legal hassle you send the 30APR2007 moc1982 template letter listed in http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ry-over-5.html

When they say no, hold firm and reiterate your position. They are bluffing holding a pair of deuces -- just standard operating procedure.

[Keasby]

Great, thanks for the encouragement. I've stood my ground but so far so are they. I've sent the reitereating letters so I guess MCOL is the next option