Old Halifax Visa account question

[summerbreeze]

After managing to maintain payments to my Halifax Visa despite falling behind with other creditors I got a letter reducing my Credit Limit to only a few pounds above the existing balance .

I assumed this is because I have a default from a Lloyds group account.
I was upset about this so sent a s78 request to Halifax for a copy of my agreement .

I sent it 6th Aug and no response so have just sent the dispute/reminder letter .

My account dates back to the first month that Halifax started to have Visa cards ... cant remember what year that was ..possible 1989 ?

I wondered if anyone has a had a CCA back from as long ago as this ?

I used to bank exclusively with Halifax and still have a current account there that had an overdraft limit of £750 and I have had that account since they first started currents accounts also so must be over 20 years .

I got a letter today saying my o/d is reduced to £50 . [ I have other current account facilities ]

I am just wondering if this will affect my daughter who has an account also with Halifax and was thinking of converting it to a Student Account as she is about to go to Uni .

Any help or comments about the Halifax methodology would be appreciated.

[summerbreeze]

Little bump

[citizenB]

A lot of companies appear to be doing this now, SB.

I wonder if it might be a good idea to have your daughter start an account with a different bank.

[summerbreeze]

Originally Posted by citizenB

A lot of companies appear to be doing this now, SB.

I wonder if it might be a good idea to have your daughter start an account with a different bank.

Thanks CB I have talked it over with daughter and she is going to apply elsewhere with a bank we dont have any problems with and see if she can get an account.

[GARY68]

Originally Posted by summerbreeze

I sent it 6th Aug and no response so have just sent the dispute/reminder letter .

My account dates back to the first month that Halifax started to have Visa cards ... cant remember what year that was ..possible 1989 ?

I wondered if anyone has a had a CCA back from as long ago as this ?

Hi Summerbreeze

You would be better now sending off a Subject access request and getting all your statements back,
Have you had ppi and charges?
If so get your statements knock up some spreadsheets and claim them back,
the chances of Halifax having anything leagly enforcable will be in your favour,they will send you their bog standard letters to you and prolong the enevitable,which will be they have "Nowt"
send off your Subject Access Request with the fee now,


HALIFAX PLC
TRINITY ROAD
HALIFAX
WEST YORKSHIRE
HX1 2RG

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request


DATE

Dear Sir/Madam


ACCOUNT NUMBERS:


Please send me the information which I am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 in relation to detailed occurrences relating to the account Numbers above

The following is by no means an exhaustive list but in the main this is what I require.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to ALL accounting history Credit cards,Loan and ppi with your organisation..

Additionally, all records you hold on me relevant to these accounts, including but not limited to:

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the credit card and loan and any repayments made to the accounts.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notices that you may have sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

9. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

10. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

11. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreements.

12. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

13. A True copy of the consumer credit agreement section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act of 1974.

Any Other information relating to these accounts

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.
Yours sincerely

[GARY68]

dont forget your £10 fee
just to help you along try these threads
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...x-journey.html
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...write-off.html
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ax-cc-ppi.html

[summerbreeze]

I still havent heard a peep from Halifax about the s78 request.
I sent it 6th August and reminder on 4th Sept.

Haven't sent the Subject access request as yet Gary as have been preoccupied with another creditor but will do so .

[summerbreeze]

Updating
nothing from Halifax except they have cancelled the overdraft on my old current account and sent me a letter with a list of charges they will implement eg.
letter £10
phone call £10
home visit £30
issuing DN £ 50

etc etc.

So I have had not one word in response to my CCA request and the follow up dispute letter for the old credit card acount.

I have sent a Subject access request but again no response as yet.

Any thoughts anyone ?

[GARY68]

HI SUMMERBREEZE

This must be there new charging policy then which came through the post the other day which i havent bothered to read.
How many payments have you missed?
I think you would get a better response if you went to the other address
Customer Priority team
Halifax
PO BOX 718
LEEDS
LS1 9GB
they get worried about complaints
COMPLAINT
I write with regards to the above accounts which i consider to be IN DISPUTE.


I am sure that you are aware that I have long since requested from Halifax, under both the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act) and the Data Protection Act 1998, a copy of the agreement to which both you allege I am a signatory. To date this has not been provided to me and whilst I appreciate Halifax Bank has endeavoured to persuade me that the provision of a copy of an standard terms& conditions is sufficient to discharge you or Halifax collections team from further obligations under section 78 of the Act. Likewise I too have explained that the mere provision of a copy of an application form is not a legally permissable substitute for the provision of a true copy of the executed agreement as required under section 78 of the Act and as prescribed by Regulation 3 Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.
INCLUDE RED IF THEY HAVE SENT THE USUAL DRIBBLE ABOUT THIS WE HAVE FULFILLED ARE REQUIREMENTS.BLA,BLA
I am sure you are also aware that under section 78(6) of the Act, whilst a creditor is in default of a request made under sub-section (1) they may not enforce the agreement.

Notwithstanding the foregoing and Halifax or retail collections persistent, unexplained and willful refusal to supply a copy of the executed agreement in accordance with its obligations (the permitted ommisions under Regulation 3(2) excepted),
To date i have received standard terms and conditions of the imformation i have requested , with no signed agreement,I must inform you that your company is still in default under section 77-79 of the consumer credit act 1974 and has been since xxxxxx 2009
There is simply a way to resolve matters

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.


obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on xx xxxxx 2009


With regards to you passing this account to any recovery agents or call team please be aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

This limit has expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.
You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, may be submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully
Thank you for your letters dated 11th Febuary and 2nd March 2009 which you acknowledge my complaint about the amount of telephone calls from Halifax collections.
ref XXXXXXXX
I write with regards to the above accounts which i consider to be IN DISPUTE.
I will respond to your request for a “mutual way” forward to the above accounts
I am sure that you are aware that I have long since requested from Halifax, under both the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act) and the Data Protection Act 1998, a copy of the agreement to which both you allege I am a signatory. To date this has not been provided to me and whilst I appreciate Halifax Bank has endeavoured to persuade me that the provision of a copy of an standard terms& conditions is sufficient to discharge you or Halifax collections team from further obligations under section 78 of the Act. Likewise I too have explained that the mere provision of a copy of an application form is not a legally permissable substitute for the provision of a true copy of the executed agreement as required under section 78 of the Act and as prescribed by Regulation 3 Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

I am sure you are also aware that under section 78(6) of the Act, whilst a creditor is in default of a request made under sub-section (1) they may not enforce the agreement.

Notwithstanding the foregoing and Halifax or retail collections persistent, unexplained and willful refusal to supply a copy of the executed agreement in accordance with its obligations (the permitted ommisions under Regulation 3(2) excepted),
To date i have received standard terms and conditions of the imformation i have requested , with no signed agreement,I must inform you that your company is still in default under section 77-79 of the consumer credit act 1974 and has been since 26th January 2009
There is simply a way to resolve matters

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.


obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXth XXXXX 2009


With regards to you passing this account to any recovery agents or call team please be aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

This limit has expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.
You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, may be submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

[summerbreeze]

Hi Gary

Thanks for stopping by
I have missed 2 payments.

They have not called me as we dont have a land line and they dont have my mobile.
They have only sent collections letters ...nothing personal at all.

[GARY68]

No phone calls great..

did you have ppi on this?
I would now wait for the Subject access request and see what that holds my guess is that it was once a mastercard as that was what halifax mainly had,
1989? cant see them having anything enforcable.

[summerbreeze]

I may have had PPi at some time but not for many recent years .

Actually it was a Visa originally . It was called the Halifax visa card

Its now a mastercard and I never have signed any new agreement as far as I know

[citizenB]

Originally Posted by summerbreeze

Updating
nothing from Halifax except they have cancelled the overdraft on my old current account and sent me a letter with a list of charges they will implement eg.
letter £10
phone call £10
home visit £30
issuing DN £ 50

etc etc.

So I have had not one word in response to my CCA request and the follow up dispute letter for the old credit card acount.

I have sent a Subject access request but again no response as yet.

Any thoughts anyone ?

They cant make those charges unless they are provided for in the terms and conditions (or maybe even in the prescribed terms). As you havent received a copy of ANYthing... then they are being a bit pushy methinks.

BTW, if they changed it from Visa to Mastercard, then they will have needed a new agreement or modifying agreement.. with your signature, as it would be a total change of account. Cos some stores didnt accept the Visa

[summerbreeze]

Originally Posted by citizenB

They cant make those charges unless they are provided for in the terms and conditions (or maybe even in the prescribed terms). As you havent received a copy of ANYthing... then they are being a bit pushy methinks.

BTW, if they changed it from Visa to Mastercard, then they will have needed a new agreement or modifying agreement.. with your signature, as it would be a total change of account. Cos some stores didnt accept the Visa

Thanks for your input CB . Helpfull as always ,
I cannot remember signing any new agreement at all and thought it was still a Visa until I looked at the card recently. Havent used it much for a long time . [ and guess I wont be using it again !! ]

[Dotty50]

My account dates back to the first month that Halifax started to have Visa cards ... cant remember what year that was ..possible 1989 ?

I wondered if anyone has a had a CCA back from as long ago as this ?

Hi Summerbreeze,

They found mine from 88!

You may find my thread interesting reading

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lifax-cca.html

[summerbreeze]

Hi Dotty
Thanks for your comments and the link to your thread. ..very interesting.

How long did it take for them to send you the CCA ? I requested mine on 6th August.

Did you request it via s78 or via a Subject access request ?

thanks SB

[Dotty50]

Hi Summerbreeze,

They replied very quickly, just over 2 weeks and I requested it under S77/78 as advised on here.

But I am still awaiting a further more legible copy, as per my thread. I will be preparing more correspondence to go to them this week and will keep posting updates on my thread.

I may send Subject access request depending on how it goes but as this card is from 1988, not sure if I have the room to accommodate the paperwork!

[summerbreeze]

I just got a reply to my s77/78 request and they sent me a typed out statement of account and a copy of the current T and C and thats all.

They say they have fulfilled their obligation !

[summerbreeze]

I got a DN dated 15th October with remedy date 5th November.

Today I got a letter dated 28th October saying I have failed to comply with the payment of the requested amount by the date on the DN and so they have terminated my agreement and are transfering me to a DCA

To prevent this please ring them NOW

What are they doing?

[citizenB]

Originally Posted by summerbreeze

I just got a reply to my s77/78 request and they sent me a typed out statement of account and a copy of the current T and C and thats all.

They say they have fulfilled their obligation !

No, they havent.

Originally Posted by summerbreeze

I got a DN dated 15th October with remedy date 5th November.

Today I got a letter dated 28th October saying I have failed to comply with the payment of the requested amount by the date on the DN and so they have terminated my agreement and are transfering me to a DCA

To prevent this please ring them NOW

What are they doing?

Seems like they have terminated the account before the remedy date