HSBC Credit Card

[rudy691]

i dont fully understand what you're advising me to do mate...sorry for being thick

[frettful38]

I am sure vint will explain very nicely as he has helped me so much with my HSBC Credit Card problem too rudy691

[vint1954]

Originally Posted by rudy691

i dont fully understand what you're advising me to do mate...sorry for being thick

OK, the default notice supplied by HSBC id defective as it does not give you 14 clear days from the date of service ( basically when you received it ) to rectify the default. This is only of importance when they terminate the agreement following s defective DN, as they have with you.

This is unlawful rescission of the agreement on their part, but you need to accept this in writing. They are then only entitled to the amount of true arrears due at the time of termination, less any damages that you claim against their unlawful termination.

There is a post by x20 that explains this and several threads on dodgy default notices in the debt collection forum. I will try and find the relevant post for you. You need to read it and understand it before acting and others may wish to comment. If you search out diddydickie's posts, he also explains it in depth.

[vint1954]

here is one post on the subject. just looking for the original.

well i am of the veiw that regardless of weather they send you a true original copy of your CCA or not, that once they have issued you a invalid/ineffective DN followed by a letter of termination, which you duely write back accecpting the termination of agreement. then the debt can not be enforced, neither can the Creditor issue you with a revised DN. as in order to do so they would need to be an credit agreement in place. meaning that they would have to reinstate the agreement, but in order to do so the debtor has to agree to the CCA being reinstated.

So in the case of if you recieve a letter stating the agreement is being reinstated (which is highly unlikley) simply write back saying you do/did not agree to the reinstatement of the original CCA. and same for if they issue you with a revised DN after they have already terminanted the cca agreement in which you accepted such termination in writing. basically after you have accepted the termintaion of the agreement based on an ineffective/invalid DN then any actions they take to try and enforce the debt is unlawful.

I am also of the veiw that if they terminate the agreement of the back of an ineffective/invalid DN upon which you repsone with written acceptecne to the termniation then it is infact the creditor that is in breach of contract and you are then eligibly for compensation.

the following statement was found by another cagger on this site and passed onto myself upon my request. thanks to cleo4patra

Failure of a Default or Termination Notice to be accurate not only invalidates such notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co NLD 14 July 199 but it is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt (Wilson v First County Trust Ltd (2003) UKHL 40, Wilson V Robertsons (London) Ltd(2006) EWCA Civ 1088, Wilson v Pawnbrokers (2005) EWCA Civ 147) - but would also give the claimant a claim for damages in the sum of £1000 (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society (1996) 4 All ER 119).

[vint1954]

Have a read here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-dodgy-dn.html

Then here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...n-further.html

And come back if you have any questions.

[rudy691]

well, how am I gonna prove that i've received that DN 6 days after they've send it ? and I never had any termination letter too.

[vint1954]

Originally Posted by rudy691

well, how am I gonna prove that i've received that DN 6 days after they've send it ? and I never had any termination letter too.

Mmmmmm,

Maths must have changed since I was at School. Must be decimalisation.

Your DN was issued on the 6th November 2009 with a rectification date of 20th November. That is only 14 days for rectification including service. 20 - 6 = 14.

6th November was a Friday. Earliest service would be 10th November for 1st class post leaving you only 10 clear days to rectify. If second class post service is deemed 12th November allowing only 8 days to rectify. This DN could never be complient.

In addition, they need to give you a figure in £'s that is required to rectify the default, not just what is on your last statement.

They have terminated your account by requiring you to pay the ballance in full. This also makes the DN defective.

You need to understand this fully before acting.

Vint.

[rudy691]

"You need to understand this fully before acting."

now you're scaring me...

so what do you propose now ?

[vint1954]

Don't mean to scare you, but if you don't understand it, then you will not be able to argue the point if required. It is not that dificult in all honesty.

They issued a DN wich is useless as a DN until the account is terminated. They are required to issue a DN in the prescribed form, to enable them to benefit from s87 of the consumer credit act 1974. s87 is the bit that entitles them to ask for all of their money back because you did not play according to the rules. If they issue a bad DN then go on to ask for all of their money back, they are doing so having not complied with the first part in issueing a bum DN.

There are then a couple of legal presidents at the bottom of post #104.

[rudy691]

ok, I understand what you mean vint, so what do you propose now ? you want me to send that letter you've posted ?

[vint1954]

Originally Posted by rudy691

ok, I understand what you mean vint, so what do you propose now ? you want me to send that letter you've posted ?

Rudy, the descission has to be yours alone, thats why I say you must understand the situation.

I can only say that if it was me, i would be sending the letter.

[rudy691]

what could be the effect of sending that letter ?

[vint1954]

It is realy just a statement of fact. In all probability they wont understand it, but it could be important later. There is nothing that they can do to reverse the situation.

Send it to their head office in Canada Square.

[rudy691]

ok, so I've sent the letter that vint suggested - had no reply yet. but I had a another letter from Metro yesterday demanding the full payment. is there anything I can send to them ?

Thomas

[vint1954]

I would just respond with a letter referring them to your previous response to them.

[rudy691]

but I had no previous correspondence with Metro, only with HSBC (i know that metro is in-house). im just asking is there anything I can physically send to Metro.

[vint1954]

Yes, you need to send them a letter detailing your dispute with HSBC.

You can edit this letter to your circumstances.

Metropolitan CS Limited
56 St James Road,
Edgbaston,
Birmingham
B15 1JL


xxxxxxxxxxxx 2010.

Dear Sirs,

Re HSBC account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Your ref xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I was somewhat bemused to receive your letter dated xxxxxxxxxxxx, received today xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I note that you have been instructed by your client, HSBC, to recover the outstanding balance on the above account and the fact you also have now formally demand immediate payment of the full balance, on behalf of your client following their own attempts to ignore the legal process.

As HSBC have passed this account to you for collection, you will no doubt be in possession of all of my past correspondence, however I will explain the situation again to you.

HSBC are aware that this account is in dispute and the reasons why it remains in dispute. HSBC have not supplied a credible response to my s78 request. Despite this, HSBC seem determined to ignore the Law.


I remind you that CCA 74 s.78(6) provides that whilst a creditor is in default of a request made under sub-section (1) it may not enforce the alleged agreement


I have written to HSBC on many occasions, pointing out the facts above and detailing the relevant laws that apply. I have no intention of listing them again and again here. It appears that HSBC ignore these letters and intend to ignore the Law, now further confirmed by their latest actions involving yourselves.

Following HSBC’s previous threats of legal action, they have again failed to supply a true copy of any alleged agreement under CPR 31:16, as I have requested.

I confirm any further costs you incur in this matter will be of your own and HSBC’s making, due to failure to read my correspondence and take heed of the current legal situation that exists and therefore will be at your own liability.



Yours

[rudy691]

letters sent - now we wait

[rudy691]

no response from Metropolitan, but had another Final Demand letter for full amount today:




I had a sort of response from HSBC to the last letter though:






any views on any of this ?

Thx in advance

Thomas

[vint1954]

Looks as if they are sticking their head in the sand.

just respond, referring them to your last 2 letters, reminding them that they have unlawfully rescinded your agreement and that you are waiting for them to let you know what the genuine arrears were at the time of default, in order that you can make a claim against that for unlawful rescission.

Their DN is definitely defective.