PCN received in council car park

[Adrian Monk]

Hello

I found this site whilst googling and wondered if you could help me.

I went into a council car park and as the person in the next bay had parked over the white line, not leaving enough space for a car to park within the lines next to him, I also parked over the white lines. Although I was over the white line I was not obstructing another space because there is just a gap (probably about half a space wide) and then a wall. No one can park in the space the warden said I was obstructing, and there are no signs to say this space is for bikes.

Afterwards I did look at the sign next to the parking meter which states that any vehicle not parked within the bays may be issued with a penalty notice. As the car park is free for the first hour and I was only away for 40 minutes I didn't need to go over to the parking meter when I arrived.

When I asked the warden what/who I was obstructing she was really abusive and told me that it's not her fault if "you people" are too lazy to find a proper space and she was sick of "you people".

Can anyone advise me what the best way to take this forward is or should I just pay it and chalk it down to experience?

Regards
Elle

[havinastella]

Is there any chance you could post up the ticket (both sides) with your details edited out.

Jogs

[Adrian Monk]

I would like to say yes, but the technological age has completely passed me by and I don't have the know how or equipment! It was issued for the leicestershire county council and states that "parked beyond the bay markings". The back states that I can challenge it but after speaking to a woman at the council she said that it would be a waste of time. (well she would I suppose).

Also, is it common practice for the enforcement officer to photograph your car?

Regards
Elle

[TheBogsDollocks]

Unfortunately you are unlikely to receive any proper consideration of the mitigating circumstances unless you are prepared to take this to adjudication.

The fact that you were coerced into parking outside the bay markings by another vehicle and the fact that the sign was placed where you were unlikely to see it would be in your favour and you can claim "de minimis" as no obstruction, injury, danger or loss of income resulted in the car being over the bay markings.

You could ask to see the council's evidence such as all photos and the CEO's log book entry and see if anything can be used to your advantage.

You can also obtain a copy of the parking places order to see if that contains errors that assist you.

[Adrian Monk]

Thanks for your time. First thing tomorrow...

Elle

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by TheBogsDollocks

Unfortunately you are unlikely to receive any proper consideration of the mitigating circumstances unless you are prepared to take this to adjudication.

You won't receive any consideration of mitigating circumstances at adjudication. They are set up to deal with law, and do not hear mitigation.

[gwc1000]

Wasn't there a win at adjudication over this some time ago? IIRC the signs must say "wholly within a bay"?

[TheBogsDollocks]

Originally Posted by patdavies

You won't receive any consideration of mitigating circumstances at adjudication. They are set up to deal with law, and do not hear mitigation.

True.....I should have constructed my sentence more specificly.

The council can consider any mitigating circumstances but in this case I am sceptical that they will cancel the pcn. It is not impossible though.

However, if you get your case before an adjudicator then I think the points you raise will receive proper consideration and have a chance if what you describe here is true and you can present a coherent defence.

You would not submit an appeal to an adjudicator on the point of mitigating circumstances for the reason Pat advises. You would need to appeal on one of several possibilities that you will become aware of when or if you receive an NtO.

What often happens is that what we think are only "mitigating circumstances" actually have more depth to them. For example in this case, if a perceived mitigating circumstance is that Adrian did not see the sign warning about parking within the bays then by raising such a perceived mitigating circumstance it opens the door to whether the car park contained sufficient signage to convey the terms of use of the car park as is required and it is no longer a simple mitigating circumstance but a point on which an adjudicator can make a determination.

Once at adjudication there is nothing to prevent you raising mitigating circumstances as they may help to provide an overall picture of the situation and the adjudicator who is legally trained may decide that a perceived mitigating circumstance is actually of fundamental importance.

[raydetinu]

does not cost anything to appeal and they will hold the early pay discount until resolved. worth a try.

[Adrian Monk]

Thank you all for your replies. I have made my appeal on the basis that the sign was not displayed where I was likely to see it. Also the bay(s) I was in have at some point been 'no parking' with yellow criss crosses over them. These have been greyed over but as the bay markings are worn it is not easy to distinguish between the markings. Will see what happens.

Elle

[Adrian Monk]

I would just like to tell you the result of my appeal - I WON!!

My ticket has been cancelled on the basis that at some point the space had been 'no parking', and when this was changed the yellow criss-cross lines were whited out. This was enough for me to argue that the spaces should be clearly marked so there is no margin for error. They said that if the case went further they couldn't guarantee they would win!

Once again, thanks to all who replied - your replies helped me word my appeal in a clear way.

Elle

[TheBogsDollocks]

Good news..well done.