clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! ***WON***

kls203 · 16th June 2009, 16:14

hi guys im new to all this but i really hope that you can help me, yesterday i went into a pay and display carpark near the college in exeter and when i came back to my car 30 mins later it had been clamped by a company called premier parking solutions and they demanded that i pay £ 100 immediately to de-immobilise my car.
i am heavily pregnant and i have 3 children that i need to get to nursery every day and reluctantly after crying for 20 mins and assuring the inforcer that i had a ticket he said that i had bought the ticet from a machine not allocated to that particular bay. I was totally confused by this and went about checking out the other machines they all charged the same rate of £1.00 per hour except the one i supposidly didnt use which charges 20p per 20 mins (60p per hour) and were all owned by prenmier parking solutions even though i had paid over the odds to park in the same car park, he said this justified him charging me £100 to have the clamp removed, in protest my boyfriend paid the money (by card) so i could at least get the children from the childcare setting.
i have photograped the whole carpark and all the signage around and there is a sign saying that the bay i was in needed to use a different payment meter but it is facing away from the space I am parked in.
The reciept the man gave me was not from premier parking solutions but A sister company called sapphire security (sw)ltd and the ticket is from a company called WJ Parking. i dont really see how all this adds up. the car park clearly displays a huge sign about pay and display and only a tiny small print over the opposite side of the carpark about the other meters.
I have use the template on maney saving expert to ask for a refund but over the phone they have said i am not entitled to one. is this even legal!!!
i am prepared to go to court over this as i am stunned that this could be allowed.
any suggestions??

kim

wheelergeezer · 16th June 2009, 17:00

Contact the card company and charge back the card as payment was made under duress.

pin1onu · 16th June 2009, 19:18

Hi Kim,

Welcome to the forums.

Cases like yours make my blood boil. They are little more than blood-sucking parasites.

However there are some remedies. Your best bet is to try for a refund from the card company.

If that fails have a read of the clamping guide in the stickies section. There are some remedies listed in it and it was written to explain your rights and the legalities.

Taking pictures is a good thing as you will probably have to take it to court. Make sure you go after the landowner and the clampers. Clampers have been known to disappear and invent themselves under a new guise. Landowners find it a little more difficult. The land registry should be able to supply details of the landowner.

Any questions post back.

kls203 · 17th June 2009, 10:41

hi i have phoned my partners card company but they are unable to refund as they have already sent out the payment ( it was a debit not credit card) i have just discovered however that the company are under administration as s sub group of Wj parking and that sapphire securities are the same thing ( same director and everything) can i do anything because of this. i have also found out that the land owners are network rail so they will be the co defendants if i take it to small claims court.
do i have a good enough case even?
i saw the guy today clamping another car in another part of exeter, im so gutted!
has anyone taken it that far before and won?
someone said once i make the application to court the land owner will probably pay to avoid the bad confrontation of court.
any ideas?

lamma · 17th June 2009, 12:53

If they are in administration and their paperwork does not declare it then report them to Companies House compliance. There are better experts than I on dealing with uncooperative banks re recharges.

pin1onu · 17th June 2009, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by kls203

do i have a good enough case even?
i saw the guy today clamping another car in another part of exeter, im so gutted!

Clamping is dependent on "implied consent". Basically if you park in defiance of a sign you can expect to be clamped. It comes down to the fact that a reasonable person would have seen and understood the signs.

You will have to convince a county court autolinker.com autolinking image

judge that the signage was deficient and therefore you could not be presumed to have agreed to being clamped. Then judge will hear the evidence and decide what is most likely to have happened based on the balance of probabilities.

Clamping is a remedy for trespass rather than for contract breach. Now in your case there are several P&D machines. Unless the signage is very specific and clear about what machine you should be using then IMV you have a case.

From what you've posted they have multiple machines and the signage is unclear. You should go back to the car park (on foot if necessary) and take photos of signs at the entrance and on your route to and from where your car was parked.

You are looking for size, height and so on. Can it be clearly read and are the terms clear and unambiguous. Also check if signage states which bays/areas it is to be used with. If it doesn't meet the above criteria then you would have a case.

Also check in the clamping guide for any breaches of the SIA requirements. They will strengthen your case.

Before you contemplate court, Civil Procedure autolinker.com autolinking image

Rules state that you should attempt to resolve the matter before persuing it in court. You should contact the clampers and the landowner in writing stating your case using the title letter before action autolinker.com autolinking image

. Given them 7-14 days to respond and send recorded delivery. Stress the the signs were unclear and that you made a genuine effort to pay.

If they refuse to refund, then you need to lodge a claim at the county court autolinker.com autolinking image

. You can do this at your local court or via MCOL (Money Claim Online).

wheelergeezer · 18th June 2009, 07:33

Can you google the car park and post on here the location, or just tell us which street it is in.

What is the reason for this one bay having a different payment meter? Is that made clear when you enter the car park or indeed when you park? You say the notice telling you that is facing away from the bay you parked in, so how are you to know? Do you suspect this has been set up delibertitely to catch people out? That is deception and needs looking into. Get trading standards down there to see for themselves, don't let them fob you off. Do extensive photographing and ideally a walk around with a video camera - especially in relation to THAT bay and the relevant signages everywhere.

A little late now, but NEVER pay by debit card. It is worth the extra charge to pay by credit card because it is easier to charge back.

kls203 · 19th June 2009, 14:10

the car park is on victoria yard next to the exeter college victoria yard building it has a railway line running off of it and the road that leads to it is off of queen street and is opposite the central train station.

wheelergeezer · 19th June 2009, 15:29

Is this it?

kls203 · 19th June 2009, 15:59

yes thats it!!!!

kls203 · 19th June 2009, 16:05

the car park next to the railway lines is the one i was in. in the first space to the left as you enter it. next to the stripy yellow lines. the pay and display machine and sign was to my right and the sign saying that it was a different machine was to the back of my car facing away from the space.

wheelergeezer · 19th June 2009, 16:16

Ok, so lets look at the following picture:

I am asuming then that you parked where the RED arrow is pointing and facing away from the green line?

I cannot tell from the pics exactly, but it looks like that might be a machine circled in green and another circled in pink. Is one of these the one you used?

The green line; is that where the sign for that space was? Was it only readable if you walked to the end of the green arrow and then looked back at your car?

Hopefully I have some of this right! LOL. I am trying to help.

EDIT: Actually I now see that the green circle is actually someones car.

kls203 · 19th June 2009, 16:28

ok. this is brill thanks so much for your help.
ye i was parked in the red arrowed space facing away from the green line and i paid at the pay and display machine to the R circled in pink.
the sign was a little to the right of where the green line is but pointing in the same direction and the slot machine was lowere than the height of my car and located directle between where your green line is and my car.
many thanks
kls203
also where the pink p d machine is a hugh blue and white sign saying 'have you paid and displayed??'

wheelergeezer · 19th June 2009, 16:51

No problem, that is what we all joined the forum for.

OK. So, the pink circle is where you did pay. Where is it that you should have paid?

Just so I am clear on teh sign by your car, are you saying it was so low down that you couldn't see it with your car parked there? It was pointing where exactly? Looking at the picture and using a clock face, with 12 o'clock being stright up and 6 o'clock being straight down, where would you have to stand in order to correctly read the sign? (I hope that makes sense). So if for example I would need to stand where the pink circled machine is, then I would say the sign was pointing at almost 3'oclock.

How far up from the ground was the actual sign approximately? 1ft? 6ft?

All this will be valuable for you when we get to the nitty gritty of exactly what was where. Do you have a photo of the signs?

wheelergeezer · 19th June 2009, 20:25

Hang on, I have just read this again. Are you saying the payment machine was at the height of your bumper or something and postioned in such a way that you simply would not see it?

kls203 · 22nd June 2009, 09:57

i am really sorry i wasnt trying to start the same thread again i was asking a separate q about contract and the person replying asked if i had been clamped so i replyed yes, i didnt mean to offend you i was just trying to establish other facts.
i understand if you wont help me any more! really sorry im new to all this i didnt realise i had to stick to the same thread etc!

thanks for all your help anyway
kls203

kls203 · 26th June 2009, 20:17

hi all
thankyou to this site and the great wheelerdealer who gave me some help.
i wrote to the company to contest the clamp release fee and to my local news paper.
it seams that wj parking are in need of some good publicity as today they have printed my story in the local paper and the parking company have given a counter statement saying that they do not accept liability but as a good will gesture they will refund me the £100 back into my card account!!!
what a result, so if in doubt get them some bad press, it seemed to work for me!!!
thankyou to all who gave me your great advice.
kim x

68904 · 26th June 2009, 21:44

Can you post the newspaper article.

The clamping company would say that would.nt they.
Good result

kls203 · 26th June 2009, 21:57

ok ill post the article asap.
here is the link

Exeter parking row, Sapphire Security, Kim Spearey | This Is Exeter

whoop whoop!!!!

wheelergeezer · 26th June 2009, 22:18

L'oreal ....... You are worth it LOL.

Glad to help. If we all shout loud enough we can sometimes beat the baddies. Never be afraid to shout when you have been stitched up. I won't take any credit, all I did was help you make your own decision. Good for you.

Another result for the forum.

16th June 2009, 16:14	#1 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder Give yourself a better chance with our claims guides and litigation kits Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* hi guys im new to all this but i really hope that you can help me, yesterday i went into a pay and display carpark near the college in exeter and when i came back to my car 30 mins later it had been clamped by a company called premier parking solutions and they demanded that i pay £ 100 immediately to de-immobilise my car. i am heavily pregnant and i have 3 children that i need to get to nursery every day and reluctantly after crying for 20 mins and assuring the inforcer that i had a ticket he said that i had bought the ticet from a machine not allocated to that particular bay. I was totally confused by this and went about checking out the other machines they all charged the same rate of £1.00 per hour except the one i supposidly didnt use which charges 20p per 20 mins (60p per hour) and were all owned by prenmier parking solutions even though i had paid over the odds to park in the same car park, he said this justified him charging me £100 to have the clamp removed, in protest my boyfriend paid the money (by card) so i could at least get the children from the childcare setting. i have photograped the whole carpark and all the signage around and there is a sign saying that the bay i was in needed to use a different payment meter but it is facing away from the space I am parked in. The reciept the man gave me was not from premier parking solutions but A sister company called sapphire security (sw)ltd and the ticket is from a company called WJ Parking. i dont really see how all this adds up. the car park clearly displays a huge sign about pay and display and only a tiny small print over the opposite side of the carpark about the other meters. I have use the template on maney saving expert to ask for a refund but over the phone they have said i am not entitled to one. is this even legal!!! i am prepared to go to court over this as i am stunned that this could be allowed. any suggestions?? kim

16th June 2009, 17:00	#2 (permalink)
wheelergeezer Basic Account Holder Is your bank avoiding its debts Data disclosure poll Cagger since : Feb 2009 Posts: 243	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* Contact the card company and charge back the card as payment was made under duress.

16th June 2009, 19:18	#3 (permalink)
pin1onu Classic Account Holder Worried about your signature being copied onto CCAs etc? Use SignGuard Cagger since : Nov 2007 I am in: Bristol Posts: 1,574	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* Hi Kim, Welcome to the forums. Cases like yours make my blood boil. They are little more than blood-sucking parasites. However there are some remedies. Your best bet is to try for a refund from the card company. If that fails have a read of the clamping guide in the stickies section. There are some remedies listed in it and it was written to explain your rights and the legalities. Taking pictures is a good thing as you will probably have to take it to court. Make sure you go after the landowner and the clampers. Clampers have been known to disappear and invent themselves under a new guise. Landowners find it a little more difficult. The land registry should be able to supply details of the landowner. Any questions post back. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

17th June 2009, 10:41	#4 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder eBay user? Find misspellings and zero-bid items Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* hi i have phoned my partners card company but they are unable to refund as they have already sent out the payment ( it was a debit not credit card) i have just discovered however that the company are under administration as s sub group of Wj parking and that sapphire securities are the same thing ( same director and everything) can i do anything because of this. i have also found out that the land owners are network rail so they will be the co defendants if i take it to small claims court. do i have a good enough case even? i saw the guy today clamping another car in another part of exeter, im so gutted! has anyone taken it that far before and won? someone said once i make the application to court the land owner will probably pay to avoid the bad confrontation of court. any ideas?

17th June 2009, 12:53	#5 (permalink)
lamma Gold Account Holder Worried about your signature being copied onto CCAs etc? Use SignGuard Cagger since : Apr 2008 Posts: 5,307	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* If they are in administration and their paperwork does not declare it then report them to Companies House compliance. There are better experts than I on dealing with uncooperative banks re recharges.

18th June 2009, 07:33	#7 (permalink)
wheelergeezer Basic Account Holder Worried about your signature being copied onto CCAs etc? Use SignGuard Cagger since : Feb 2009 Posts: 243	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* Can you google the car park and post on here the location, or just tell us which street it is in. What is the reason for this one bay having a different payment meter? Is that made clear when you enter the car park or indeed when you park? You say the notice telling you that is facing away from the bay you parked in, so how are you to know? Do you suspect this has been set up delibertitely to catch people out? That is deception and needs looking into. Get trading standards down there to see for themselves, don't let them fob you off. Do extensive photographing and ideally a walk around with a video camera - especially in relation to THAT bay and the relevant signages everywhere. A little late now, but NEVER pay by debit card. It is worth the extra charge to pay by credit card because it is easier to charge back.

19th June 2009, 14:10	#8 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder Is your bank avoiding its debts Data disclosure poll Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* the car park is on victoria yard next to the exeter college victoria yard building it has a railway line running off of it and the road that leads to it is off of queen street and is opposite the central train station.

19th June 2009, 15:29	#9 (permalink)
wheelergeezer Basic Account Holder Protect your signature with SignGuard Cagger since : Feb 2009 Posts: 243	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* Is this it?

19th June 2009, 15:59	#10 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder Worried about your signature being copied onto CCAs etc? Use SignGuard Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* yes thats it!!!!

19th June 2009, 16:05	#11 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder Protect your signature with SignGuard Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* the car park next to the railway lines is the one i was in. in the first space to the left as you enter it. next to the stripy yellow lines. the pay and display machine and sign was to my right and the sign saying that it was a different machine was to the back of my car facing away from the space.

19th June 2009, 16:16	#12 (permalink)
wheelergeezer Basic Account Holder We need funds Please donate something Cagger since : Feb 2009 Posts: 243	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* Ok, so lets look at the following picture: I am asuming then that you parked where the RED arrow is pointing and facing away from the green line? I cannot tell from the pics exactly, but it looks like that might be a machine circled in green and another circled in pink. Is one of these the one you used? The green line; is that where the sign for that space was? Was it only readable if you walked to the end of the green arrow and then looked back at your car? Hopefully I have some of this right! LOL. I am trying to help. EDIT: Actually I now see that the green circle is actually someones car.

19th June 2009, 16:28	#13 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder Protect your signature with SignGuard Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* ok. this is brill thanks so much for your help. ye i was parked in the red arrowed space facing away from the green line and i paid at the pay and display machine to the R circled in pink. the sign was a little to the right of where the green line is but pointing in the same direction and the slot machine was lowere than the height of my car and located directle between where your green line is and my car. many thanks kls203 also where the pink p d machine is a hugh blue and white sign saying 'have you paid and displayed??'

19th June 2009, 16:51	#14 (permalink)
wheelergeezer Basic Account Holder We need funds Please donate something Cagger since : Feb 2009 Posts: 243	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* No problem, that is what we all joined the forum for. OK. So, the pink circle is where you did pay. Where is it that you should have paid? Just so I am clear on teh sign by your car, are you saying it was so low down that you couldn't see it with your car parked there? It was pointing where exactly? Looking at the picture and using a clock face, with 12 o'clock being stright up and 6 o'clock being straight down, where would you have to stand in order to correctly read the sign? (I hope that makes sense). So if for example I would need to stand where the pink circled machine is, then I would say the sign was pointing at almost 3'oclock. How far up from the ground was the actual sign approximately? 1ft? 6ft? All this will be valuable for you when we get to the nitty gritty of exactly what was where. Do you have a photo of the signs?

19th June 2009, 20:25	#15 (permalink)
wheelergeezer Basic Account Holder Your bank owes you an awful lot more money than you realise See here Cagger since : Feb 2009 Posts: 243	re: clamped and forced to pay!!! please help! *WON* Hang on, I have just read this again. Are you saying the payment machine was at the height of your bumper or something and postioned in such a way that you simply would not see it?

22nd June 2009, 09:57	#16 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder Is your bank avoiding its debts Data disclosure poll Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	to wheeler geezer i am really sorry i wasnt trying to start the same thread again i was asking a separate q about contract and the person replying asked if i had been clamped so i replyed yes, i didnt mean to offend you i was just trying to establish other facts. i understand if you wont help me any more! really sorry im new to all this i didnt realise i had to stick to the same thread etc! thanks for all your help anyway kls203

26th June 2009, 20:17	#17 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder Where else can you earn 8% interest on your money? Start your County Court claim NOW!!! Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	im getting the £100 clamp release fee refunded, thankyou wheelerdealer!! hi all thankyou to this site and the great wheelerdealer who gave me some help. i wrote to the company to contest the clamp release fee and to my local news paper. it seams that wj parking are in need of some good publicity as today they have printed my story in the local paper and the parking company have given a counter statement saying that they do not accept liability but as a good will gesture they will refund me the £100 back into my card account!!! what a result, so if in doubt get them some bad press, it seemed to work for me!!! thankyou to all who gave me your great advice. kim x

26th June 2009, 21:44	#18 (permalink)
68904 Basic Account Holder Where else can you earn 8% interest on your money? Start your County Court claim NOW!!! Cagger since : Apr 2008 I am in: The Village of the Bouncing Balls, Sodor. Posts: 446	Re: im getting the £100 clamp release fee refunded, thankyou wheelerdealer!! Can you post the newspaper article. The clamping company would say that would.nt they. Good result

26th June 2009, 21:57	#19 (permalink)
kls203 Basic Account Holder We need funds Please donate something Cagger since : Jun 2009 Posts: 14	Re: im getting the £100 clamp release fee refunded, thankyou wheelerdealer!! ok ill post the article asap. here is the link Exeter parking row, Sapphire Security, Kim Spearey \| This Is Exeter whoop whoop!!!!

26th June 2009, 22:18	#20 (permalink)
wheelergeezer Basic Account Holder Try our eBay sniping service Cagger since : Feb 2009 Posts: 243	Re: im getting the £100 clamp release fee refunded, thankyou wheelerdealer!! L'oreal ....... You are worth it LOL. Glad to help. If we all shout loud enough we can sometimes beat the baddies. Never be afraid to shout when you have been stitched up. I won't take any credit, all I did was help you make your own decision. Good for you. Another result for the forum.