Looming Peugot Warranty Dispute

[Viqer Fell]

Hi everyone,

Am looking for a bit of advice on how to deal with a potential problem I can see looming over the next few days where I suspect Peugeot are going to try and shaft my better half for want of a better phrase.

She bought a new Peugeot 207, Manual Gear, (1.4L Petrol I think) in Sept 2007. The car is still under the 3 year manufacturer's warranty that she got with the brand new car upon purchase.

The car is used for her daily commute to work c7 miles away and in the 2 1/2 years owned has done just over 12,000 miles in total. She does not normally do any motorway travel at all and having been in the car with her on quite a few occasions now I am able to say comfortably that she doesn't ride the clutch.

Odd problem occured 2 weeks ago when she changed into 5th gear from 4th at about 3000 rpm on motorway to come visit me (normally I go to hers) where the engine a second or so after changing gear suddenly shot up to 4000 revs or so then fell back after a few seconds and car subsequently drove normally.

Since then the problem has begun to repeat and is quite replicable in terms of get to c2,500-3,000 rpm and change up to 4th and 5th and Voom large over revving and then subsides to normal expected range. There is also a noticeable drop in power now in 5th gear so acceleration is sluggish.

Car was taken to Peugeot garage last week where they advised from testing the microchip in the engine they couldnt see a problem and that they'd driven it up and down and to quote "it drove like a dream" despite being told exactly how to replicate the problem.

Anyways, girlfriend being admittedly not very knowledgable about the mechanical things in life, accepted the car back on the basis that "if it happens again bring it straight back and we'll give you a courtesy car whilst we fix it."

Lo and behold, it happens again and the Car is taken straight back in today to the Peugeot Garage (their first free slot).

They are now saying that they believe it to be the gearbox that is at fault, that they will take it out of the car to check but that it is likely to be wear and tear and if so not only is this not covered under the manufacturers warranty that she will have to pay £300 for the cost of them taking the gearbox out but then also any costs involved in replacing which they have said will be about £6-700 + labour.

To top it all off they have said there'll be no courtesy car as they think it's wear and tear (bearing in mind they've not even looked yet!!!) and not a defect or manufacturing fault and they may need the car to be kept for a few days to look at the problem. I have told her to bloomin well argue the toss over the courtesy car tomorrow as it's pathetic to offer it one week then suddenly change your mind when you see dollar signs in front of your eyes.

Now this seems to me to be a case of "Oh she's a blonde woman" let's just tell her it's wear and tear and we don't have to fork out on a warranty and we can earn a nice wad of folding stuff out of her.

Surely a clutch that has done 12,000 miles in 2.5 years from new and that hasn't been abused by some mad clutch riding maniac on steroids should be expected to not wear down to the point it needs replacing???

What are the options she has if the garage do try and wriggle out of the manufacturers warranty as they have indicated will be likely and label this as reasonable wear and tear?

Any advice would be most appreciated as I feel pretty gutted for her, she's just spent the last 3 hours in tears at the quoted costs of repairing what is essentially a fairly new car still.

[2ltr16valve]

Do not know if this will help you, but my brother had a pug 307 on a 2007 plate ... was a motability car so was new, within the year it had a gearbox and two clutches replaced due to failure of pug parts ! he had to argue with the warranty people for ages but got it sorted in the end.

They changed the clutch the first time around, saying that was the issue... he had the car back for about a week and the gearbox destroyed itself.... blew a hole in the bell housing ! so needed a new gearbox and clutch again !

This is where the fun started... pug warranty said that it was down to neglect ! and said that if he paid for assessment and was found to be failure they would pay out... which to their surprise he did do, and surprise surprise was found to be a failure on parts !

[scaniaman]

Suggest you firstly check some of the PUG sites. It runs in my mind that there was a clutch fault on some of the 2/3 series and some folks reckoned to get free repairs up to 5 yr. old.
Many manufacturers are trying to wriggle out of warranty work just now. I am having a hell of a job with Citroën---sister company of PUG.

[heliosuk]

It does sound suspiciously like a dual mass flywheel failure but not sure what engines they are fitted to. Costs quoted are comparable.

How the garage thinks they are going to find the answer by "plugging it into the diagnostic machine" defeats me given the fault description.

You should also log a complaint ASAP with Pegeout in Coventry asap to start the ball rolling.

[Viqer Fell]

I can only hope they look inside and find it's not wear and tear and fix it under warranty but I am skeptical given their behaviour thus far.

In terms of suggesting a complaint I take it you are of a mind they will insist its wear and tear but that her only option would be to pay them whatever bill they demand and then try to claim it back through complaining to Peugeot?

Have told her to go back in morning, demand a courtesy car (bearing in mind they haven't even looked at the clutch yet, they're just assuming its wear and tear) and then to get them to do their investigation work as soon as they can slot it in.

It does sound though from your inference is that if they want to be assholes she'll get stuck with paying a massive bill and then having to argue the toss with some git at Peugeot who is targetted to reduce paying out on claims where possible. Brilliant :-/

Thanks for the replies and will update when I hear tomorrow what happens.

[scaniaman]

Heliosuk, I think you have propably cracked it. It was the DMF that people were having trouble with, and in fact it is possible to repair by fitting a normal flywheel.
Can't say which PUGS have DMF but it's only the Citroen diesels which use them. OP thinks it's a petrol that burd has--seems unsure.!!
Have read several posts recently about faulty gearboxes---nearly all say that gearbox has to be replaced????????????? Surely if casing is OK then it must be cheaper to replace bearings etc etc--- or is this another case where "technicians" can't do the job---bet a motor mechanic could!!!!!!!!!!
See my post on "Girning gear lever" on Citroen site.

[heliosuk]

Originally Posted by Viqer Fell

I can only hope they look inside and find it's not wear and tear and fix it under warranty but I am skeptical given their behaviour thus far.

In terms of suggesting a complaint I take it you are of a mind they will insist its wear and tear but that her only option would be to pay them whatever bill they demand and then try to claim it back through complaining to Peugeot?

Have told her to go back in morning, demand a courtesy car (bearing in mind they haven't even looked at the clutch yet, they're just assuming its wear and tear) and then to get them to do their investigation work as soon as they can slot it in.

It does sound though from your inference is that if they want to be assholes she'll get stuck with paying a massive bill and then having to argue the toss with some git at Peugeot who is targetted to reduce paying out on claims where possible. Brilliant :-/

Thanks for the replies and will update when I hear tomorrow what happens.

Point about logging it at Pug is that you can't rely on the garage not being a bunch of muppets and PUG UK will control the process to a certain extent. I doubt the box is at fault as that is a direct mechanical drive and can't cause the engine to rev and lose power unless it's seizing in unusual circumstances. But then there would be a host of other issues as well.

[Viqer Fell]

Well the GF took a rather odd option without telling me today until she'd done it

Went into garage, collected car and took it to another garage to diagnose problem. Sat mechanic in car and within a few tens of metres of driving him around without telling him what the problem was he says "that's a worn clutch, its grinding and slipping, definite wear and tear".

Now call me a skeptic but a) I doubt she told him nothing but b) how the feck can anyone say definitely what the problem is without even lifting the f*cking bonnet

She's now convinced that she's saved herself the £300 bill of having PUG check the clutch out and also that because someone else said wear and tear that she has zero chance of a warranty payout so she's now willing to pay the £700 for a new clutch.

Now I am far from a chauvanist but for f*cks sake today wants to make me ban women from going near a garage. Her complete fear of confronting a "mechanic/semi-trained monkey/knuckle draggin con-artist" and arguing has cost her best part of 3/4 of a grand for a car that has barely even started its life cycle.

I cannot decide whether I am more angry at PUG dealership for being awkward scheisters in the first place, my gf for believeing that just because someone wears oily overalls they know better than her or the other garage for their "miracle diagnosis"

Cheers anyway guys. It's as the saying goes I guess you can take a horse to water but you can't make it listen to common sense if you use a fricking megaphone or something along those lines

[heliosuk]

Originally Posted by Viqer Fell

Well the GF took a rather odd option without telling me today until she'd done it

Went into garage, collected car and took it to another garage to diagnose problem. Sat mechanic in car and within a few tens of metres of driving him around without telling him what the problem was he says "that's a worn clutch, its grinding and slipping, definite wear and tear".

Now call me a skeptic but a) I doubt she told him nothing but b) how the feck can anyone say definitely what the problem is without even lifting the f*cking bonnet

She's now convinced that she's saved herself the £300 bill of having PUG check the clutch out and also that because someone else said wear and tear that she has zero chance of a warranty payout so she's now willing to pay the £700 for a new clutch.

Now I am far from a chauvanist but for f*cks sake today wants to make me ban women from going near a garage. Her complete fear of confronting a "mechanic/semi-trained monkey/knuckle draggin con-artist" and arguing has cost her best part of 3/4 of a grand for a car that has barely even started its life cycle.

I cannot decide whether I am more angry at PUG dealership for being awkward scheisters in the first place, my gf for believeing that just because someone wears oily overalls they know better than her or the other garage for their "miracle diagnosis"

Cheers anyway guys. It's as the saying goes I guess you can take a horse to water but you can't make it listen to common sense if you use a fricking megaphone or something along those lines

Frankly Fell if I was GF of yours I'd be asking to for help on these forums on how to cure a Pathetic Reply And Total Twaddle of male chauvanism.

She did the right thing to get another opinion and I for one can tell if a clutch is slipping without lifting the elequently described bonnet, as could quite a few of us who post on here. So rather than the derogatory commentary encourage her to get it fixed the correct way and that would be by taking it back to Pug dealer and telling them the clutch is slipping and she want's it repaired under warranty.And a lot of us have/do wear oily overalls. She should point out that generally Pug or PSA allow 18K miles before enforcing the wear and tear policy and that they should approach PUG UK for a decision as regards to a full warranty replacement or a goodwill contribution. It would not be a good idea to say it doesn't do motorways either, just describe the use as general with a bit of everything. If the car is just used in city/town then answer will be sorry we can't help. As I have said, log the complaint in the nicest possible way and often you will be surprised at what you will get.

I take it that despite the low mileage it has a full history as per their terms and conditions as well?

[Viqer Fell]

Hi sorry my post was, as you will guess, made out of frustration and tbh it's better to rant a little on here and then be able to reply in a more calm and rationale manner elsewhere.

So apologies for taking advantage of the forums for a bit of ranting.

I don't mind that she got another opinion and it wasnt that the guy could tell it was a duff clutch that bothered me it was the "oh it's wear and tear comment". I know little about vehicle components myself hence coming to you guys but I did think that to diagnose the reason for the problem without even looking was a bit far fetched.

Tbh my reply was also tinged with the anger at Peugeot's dealership in the area in the way they have behaved towards my better half as I don't like to think people are taking advantage of her. I certainly did not mean any disrespect to the oily overall wearing community more a rant at the gits in that particular establishment.

The second opinion only reinforced her opinion that PUG would not pay a penny and she has had it fixed by the 2nd garage despite my assurances after reading your comments that she had a reasonable chance of persuading PUG to accept a warranty claim.

I think it was the dealership garages quote of £300 to investigate + c£700 to fix with no guarantee of getting it back compared to the 2nd garages quote of £340 to fix it incl of everything that made her mind up.

Once again sorry for previously ranting a little and I hope I havent offended anyone when at the end of the day you are trying to help out. That wasn't my intent.

Thank you for your kind advice.

[heliosuk]

Not a problem Fell. Take it back, explain an independant has said it's the clutch and follow advice about geting them to contact PUG UK for guidance. Simultaneously log the complaint as when the dealer phones up with the Vin number it will be flagged as a problem case.

The difference between warranty and goodwill contributions is based on mileage, service history, ownership and believe it or not the customer attitude.

So in the time GF has owned it should have had a service at least once a year. If not it makes it difficult to justify in this particular case.

What would also be usefull is to find out exactly what the Pug quote of £700 odd consists of and what the labour content is. The £700 suggests a DMS flywheel but as before not sure what it was fitted to.

The rule of thumb is in this case is to take a softly softly approach by getting the details needed. When this info is available it's possible to make a considered analysis of the situation and then start launching French made Exocets if the need arises.

It will take some time but it can and does work if played correctly.

BTW, you might like to factor in some serious puckering up money to GF if she sees the post as at the moment you need some serious away goals

[Viqer Fell]

Well as it stands I've just bought her a surprise holiday away so puckering up sorted although I dont think she'll ever see this post

As for the other she has already told the guy to replace the clutch and is not wanting to bother trying to argue with PUG over the warranty irrespective of the advice.

So thank you for your help and again sorry for letting my furstrations get the better of me and being OTT on my posting. I value your input.

[heliosuk]

Well lets hope the holiday you have booked just happens to be in South Africa this summer or by chance happens to be in Twickenham, Edingburgh, Dublin, Rome or Paris in the next couple of months

A couple of things to watch for at repairing mechanics.

When the box is out you should ask them to confirm if it is a dual mass flywheel or not before they do anything more. If it is then halt all work and come back here for advice as to how to proceed. If not then let them get on with it but if they say the flywheel needs replacing then proceed with caution as the limits to do this now are very tight and if they do you could end up with more issues than you started with. Years ago there was quite a bit to play with but not now. Apart from that it's quite straight forward.

Let us know how it goes and if any queries just post here. Control the situation as it is a potential claim against PUG and not fully dead yet.

If the holiday is as above then all I can say is you lucky, devious person of questionable parentage

[scaniaman]

Check out "Honest John's" web site. If DMF has gone wrong Peugeot have been replacing out of warranty.